Paul Furber Tells The Truth About Race-Based Violence in South Africa

In this candid discussion, Sean Morgan interviews Paul Furber, a South African resident, about the state of post-apartheid South Africa—its history, challenges, and the future for white South Africans, especially Afrikaners.

• 1994 Elections & ANC Rise to Power
Paul Furber recalls the 1994 democratic elections, when South Africa transitioned from apartheid. A white-majority referendum supported this change, leading to the African National Congress (ANC)—a liberation movement formed in 1913—winning with around 62% of the vote.

• Post-Apartheid Optimism and Unity
Furber describes the early post-apartheid era as hopeful. The economy remained strong, and events like the 1995 Rugby World Cup victory helped foster a sense of national unity across racial lines.

• Shift Toward Anti-White Government Policy
In response to Sean's questions, Furber explains that the ANC has increasingly adopted policies that discriminate against whites, especially Afrikaners. This includes land seizures and economic exclusion measures designed to address historical injustices.

• Violence Against White Farmers
Furber points to alarming crime statistics. He states that South Africa’s murder rate is among the highest globally, and white farmers are three times more likely to be murdered than the average citizen—a crisis that is largely ignored by international media.

• Afrikaner Identity and Historical Roots
Discussing Afrikaner heritage, Furber explains that these communities descend from Dutch and French settlers who arrived in the 1600s. He emphasizes that they view themselves as native South Africans with centuries of cultural and historical roots.

• Land Ownership and Historical Narrative
The issue of land reform is raised, with Furber criticizing the ANC’s approach. He notes that while the government blames white farmers for past dispossession, much of the land being taken remains under state control, not returned to actual claimants.

• Economic Marginalization Through BEE Laws
Furber outlines how Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) policies restrict white participation in business. He uses Elon Musk as an example—saying the South African-born entrepreneur would be barred from starting a business under current laws.

• Clash of Cultures: Collectivism vs. Individualism
In response to Sean’s questions about underlying philosophical differences, Furber explains that South Africa’s problems reflect a deeper cultural conflict: African collectivist traditions clashing with Western ideals of individual liberty and private property.

• Double Messaging from the ANC
Furber criticizes the ANC for presenting a reconciliatory image internationally while simultaneously using racially inflammatory rhetoric domestically to maintain political support.

• Trump’s Refugee Proposal for Afrikaners
Sean brings up President Trump’s 2018 suggestion to accept Afrikaner refugees. Furber defends the idea, arguing that the persecution is real—even if critics dismiss it as racially motivated.

• Orania: Afrikaner Self-Reliance in Action
Furber and Morgan discuss Orania, a private Afrikaner-only town. Furber describes it as a safe, clean, and economically productive community that exemplifies what Afrikaners can achieve when allowed to manage their own affairs.

• Ideological Roots of ANC Policy
Finally, Furber asserts that the ANC’s policies are influenced by Marxist and globalist ideologies. He argues that their approach seeks to redistribute land and wealth without building sustainable economic systems, resulting in increasing hardship for all South Africans.

Transcript

Speaker 2

Welcome to the 40,000 Foot View. I'm your host, Sean Morgan. We have a great show for you today.We're going to be talking to Paul Ferber in a minute here. And just a reminder, you can go to jmcvoice.com. That's johnmichaelchambers.com as well. And you can check out all the shows, all the programming in the JMC archives, Josh Reed's Deep Dives. We've got JMC and Juan for the Intel and Insights show. We have the Military Panel show once a month and the Conversations of Consequence sit down interviews with JMC and the thought leaders of our time.You can also see the 40,000 Foot View shows there as well, as well as our Rumble channel. And you can see that in the description below. Welcome to the show, Paul.It's been a while. I'm really looking forward to catching up with you. And I just have been noticing how much South Africa has been in the news.The Trump administration really putting the policies of the South African government in the spotlight, as well as Elon Musk, who is actually a part of the Trump administration now, putting the spotlight on the policies there as well. And I know that you're a longtime resident of South Africa. I'm assuming you were born there.So can you tell me about how things have evolved, perhaps since apartheid, and how the country has evolved or changed or devolved, maybe, and what you think about the Trump administration doing the refugee program?

Speaker 1

Hi, Sean. Yes, of course. So South Africa had free and fair elections.In other words, everyone, regardless of race or color, was allowed to vote in 1994. And this was as a result of the white population vote. You know, there was a referendum by the previous government.And about two thirds of white people said, yes, let's have, you know, let's end apartheid. Let's have free and fair elections. And so, yeah, the ANC, which is historically a liberation movement, quite a venerable one.I mean, it goes back to, I think, 1913. So it has been around a long time in this, you know, in this in this country swept to power. They got about 62 percent of the vote.And then, you know, other parties got other parties, you know, fought for the scraps. And for quite a few years. Well, I mean, I've been living here since I wasn't born here, just to put that in.But I've been living here since 1989. So a while. And initially, all seemed well.So after I won the Rugby World Cup, there was, you know, it was a highly functioning society with advanced industry, a lot of mining, you know, a lot of agriculture and. Well, see, it all seemed well for a long time, but I would say in the last 10 years, there's been. A slow, well, not just a slowdown, but an active campaign by the government against particularly white people, but particularly Afrikaners.The number of farm murders, South Africa is a very violent country, always has been. We are currently the in the top three in the world for murder rates per thousand people. It's about 45, I think.Farm murders of white farmers in this country is three times that. So, yeah, to be a Boer, to be an Afrikaans farmer, who the guys who produce our food and run our agriculture are is what, yeah, it's the most dangerous sort of classification of human being there is.

Speaker 2

Oh, real quick question. What is the difference between a white South African and an Afrikaner? Well, I'm an English speaking South African.

Speaker 1

The Afrikaners are the people who came here in the 1600s before the United States was even a country. They arrived here. There were a mix of refugees, you know, Huguenots, Dutch.And they arrived in the Cape in, yeah, three, four hundred years ago. And they they made a contract with the people who were there and bought and paid for the land that they then started settling on and farming. Later, there was a split and a number of them trekked.That's called the Great Trek, moved up to what is now Gauteng, the, you know, the Transvaal region across the Vaal River. And, yeah, it's it's an exceedingly it was an exceedingly wealthy province that that I'm living in right now, which is on the on the Witwatersrand because of all the gold here. So, yeah, the the British took note of that in the late 1800s and launched one of their wars.And the Boers really let them have it. They fought very modern with very modern weapons and tactics, and they taught the British quite a lesson on the battlefield in this country. And I don't think the Brits have even have ever forgiven them for it.Eventually, the British were forced to. My history is a little bit hazy, and it's been a while since I studied it. The British were forced to use concentration camps and scorched earth policies, you know, where women and children were held in concentration camps.The British invented concentration camps, basically, and just basically, you know, put all the farms to fire and sort. So ultimately, the Boers were forced to surrender. And the country has been a well, it was a member of the Commonwealth for quite a while until 1948, the National Party took over.And that was a race, you know, on the basis of race. And the country was then governed by apartheid, which was separate development. In other words, the races were very strictly segregated.There was separate education, separate facilities. So thoroughly unpleasant system, I must say. Yeah, and evil in many ways.And the national government were not the greatest people in the world, but. Well, what you know, when the when the ANC took over, a lot of people said, yeah, let's make it work. And strangely enough, when we work together, we are the best in the world.So, for instance, we've been rugby champions for a straight 2000 days, which is insane. Nobody's ever done that before. We've won the Rugby World Cup four times more than any other nation.And yeah, the team is completely mixed, you know, is completely multiracial and. Because, yeah, the guys work together and get on with it and they're supremely talented. But yeah, my feeling is that going back to the shadows.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you, Paul, but going back to Afrikaners, why are they targeted and why are the farmers specifically targeted for for attack?

Speaker 1

Well, there's like there is a contentious issue of land in this country. The ANC claim that a lot of the land was stolen by Afrikaners originally and certainly in 1913, which was a strange coalition here that involved the British, the Afrikaners, the settlers and the native population, as they were called then. A lot of land was a lot of land was taken.Now, the ANC are leveraging the the memory of that in order to get the Afrikaners off the land and they won't negotiate, which is a problem, because, you know, if you drive all the farms out of this country, we will starve. Simple as that. But.You see, the African tribes have a very deep connection to the land in this part of the world, and it's actually tied up with the spirits of their ancestors and their religion. So it is a it is a non-negotiable for them. And unfortunately, I don't really see any kind of, you know, any way of reconciling the two while the ANC remain as intransigent as they are.They have I can't remember the hectares of land owned by the ANC. They've given away a lot of land to the original residents already, but they've kept the title deeds for themselves. And I remember in January, there was a survey done in the Eastern Cape where a lot of, you know, the Eastern Cape provinces where a lot of this land theft took place, that the people's 90 percent of the people there said, actually, we don't we don't want the land.It's it's a very difficult asset to own. It doesn't turn a profit. 90 percent of them said, please, can we just have jobs and money or money?And then 90 percent of them took money instead of their ancestral land. So this, I believe, is part of a wider campaign by the people funding the ANC, because, yeah, just like everywhere else in the world, you know, the real powers in the shadows fund the governments who are just puppets who sing, you know, you dance to their tune and they. They want they want as many people driven into cities as possible.And they want as many, you know, they want the Boers off the land.

Speaker 2

But who are who are committing the farm murders? Are these random random vagrants who are who are, you know, motivated by this political messaging or these targeted attacks?

Speaker 1

I think some of them are random. Yeah, some of them are random. Some of them are very targeted.I mean, we have there is a case on record which security footage from one of the farmers who was attacked shows what looked like armed insurgents basically with military weapons and a military grade cell phone jammer. That is a you know, that is a case that went to the high court. Now, your average peasant guy out in the middle of nowhere cannot get his hands on a military grade cell jammer.So, yeah, I'm I'm I suspect that a lot of them are actually. Sponsored by forces who want as much chaos in this country as possible.

Speaker 2

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Speaker 1

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Speaker 2

Right. You know, getting back to the the idea of. The United States providing refugee status to some of these Afrikaners and these these farm owners that have had issues of the government repossessing the land and and this this kind of targeted violence.This is along racial lines. We've seen an interesting reaction in South Africa to this policy and an interesting reaction in the United States, where in South Africa, there hasn't been much of an apology for the policies. In fact, you see like a doubling down from the the I guess you could call them black supremacists who who are saying basically, yeah, we do have a right to kill white people.We've I've seen quotes like that of different people holding political office saying, OK, maybe haven't called for the deaths of white people yet, but we reserve that as an option. So it does sound like somewhat of a racial civil war is happening. Or there's this type of.Basically, a racial ideology going on in South Africa and in the American side, you have liberals foaming at the mouth that President Trump would dare give white people refugee status in the United States, which really has taken the mask off and shown that they really don't believe in people who are culturally similar to Americans settling in the United States. They really want to change the racial identity of the United States through immigration policy.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's absolutely right. The I saw, I think, Charlie Kirk commenting the other day on the whole, you know, Afrikaner refugees to the US saying that liberals were liberals want, you know, they want nonwhites pouring into the country illegally so that, you know, they can just, you know, rule over a bunch of mixed race, you know, slaves, basically. What they don't want Afrikaners coming in because they're highly skilled.They work exceedingly hard and they would instantly add value to the US economy, which they do. The Afrikaners are incredibly tough and hardworking people. There's one one example which really gets up the ANC's nose is Orania, which is a tiny little enclave, relatively speaking, in the middle of semi desert.And in 20 years or so, Afrikaans people have just transformed it into an absolute oasis of, you know, fruit trees and crops and houses and schools and a church. And it's really beautiful. It's really stunning.It's the whole place is spotless. There's almost no crime. You know, kids sort of ride their bicycles everywhere.Everyone leaves their door open. It's really it's literally that old cliche of almost a semi paradise. And there was nothing there before.It was like it's in the middle of the Karoo. So the desert. So, yeah.And that's the sort of pioneering spirit that the Afrikaner brings to this continent and always has, frankly. So, yeah, they that is the kind of skills that President Trump is wants, you know, wants to bring into the US. And I think he's right to do so.I think from a broader perspective, I was thinking I was talking to some people the other day about the big picture on all this is that President Trump has a strategic aim behind why a number of strategic goals behind this whole refugee thing. One is to shine a spotlight on what the ANC is really doing, because they've been broadcasting on two channels for about 10, 15 years now. The one is to the locals.And that is kill the boar, kill the farmer. We're not going to cut white throats yet, but be ready when we call for it. And of course, you know, to millions of really struggling people.That's that's good news. You know, they can. Kill everyone and steal all their stuff.Great. To the international community outwards, it's no, this is the Rainbow Nation. We're working hard.Yeah, we have challenges, but we're fine. And suddenly President Trump is tuning into Channel One and saying, hey, what's this? And, you know, so the ANC is still I mean, they still can't help themselves.They they they issued a statement last week when the refugees when the refugees arrived in D.C. And they said, yeah, well, you know, these people are, you know, they want to run away from transformation with impunity. Why should white people be punished for impunity? You know, they're running away from justice.No, actually, we had justice. We had a full Truth and Reconciliation Commission where people could come and confess their crimes during apartheid on both sides. And people did.So why are we going through this all again? You're right. And yeah.And as for the racial policies in this country, they're just out of control. There are one hundred and forty three laws on the books forbidding whites from getting involved in various things. Or right.You know, it's almost impossible to do commas in this country as a white.

Speaker 2

I don't think Americans really understand how powerful that policy is because we don't have anything like that. But Elon Musk was saying basically he's born in South Africa and he's not allowed to bring Starlink to the country because he's not black. And that's correct.

Speaker 1

Yes, the government has a policy where it's called black economic empowerment or BEE. But what it basically means is you if you want to do business here, you have to give 30 percent of your business to black owners. There are exceptions for internationals, for instance.I mean, I'm a former technology journalist and the Microsoft's and the IBM's of the world used to have an equivalent that, you know, obviously IBM and Microsoft are not going to give 30 percent to their local businesses, to the government. But they did commit to they did commit to investment in the country in other ways. So it is possible.I don't see why Starlink can't have the same. The thing is, it's a telecoms company, which means that and it's an exceedingly effective one. You know, you plug in your little box and five minutes later, you've got terabytes of bandwidth up and down.I mean, really is an extraordinary invention, Starlink. And it would revolutionize this country. I mean, everyone would just have everyone would just have high speed Internet.I can just imagine the businesses that would take off here would be amazing.

Speaker 2

Yes, it seems like they don't want progress. It seems like the the racial ideology is overrides actually wanting prosperity for the country. And I recently worked in China teaching English with a lot of South Africans, South Africans who are Afrikaners, South Africans who are of Indian descent.And they tried to explain this this racial policy for doing business. And basically what they said is it creates a black market where people with the darker colored skin offer to use their name as a partnership in exchange for a payment where they don't really have a real ownership of the company. So basically it just encourages workarounds instead of actually empowering black people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the art fundamental divide here in this country, and it's one which isn't talked about, which annoys me enormously because it would you know, if we understood each other, we'd go forward a lot better is the difference between group culture and individual culture. And most of the most of the world's population is group culture. Now, in a group culture, you are you basically are a member of a group.You know, you give loyalty to your leaders in exchange for being protected because you may be in a difficult environment. And basically collaboration with your group, your tribe is essential if you are to survive. Now, this continent here is a lush but dangerous continent.So the African mindset, and this is true across all countries in Africa that I've looked at, is group culture. They are loyal to their tribal leaders in exchange for which they are protected by their tribal leaders. So when it comes to 30 percent of business, that is just that is just a group culture mindset.If you want to do something, you you need to get the permission of the leaders. It's not a right or wrong thing. It just is, whereas white people, including Afrikaners.I mean, this is not a this is not an either or thing. We are, you know, group culture and individual culture. People are a bit of both.But I'm talking about mainly why people are mainly individual culture people. We have small nuclear families. We celebrate individual achievements.We worship individual rights. If you think about, you know, the individual rights of the U.S. Constitution, for instance, and the Bill of Rights, those are aimed at the individual. Every person has the right, you know, to has the God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.Those are that is a that is a very individually focused mindset. Right. And white people in general, and especially in this country, despise all forms of government.I mean, we just hate it because it's a necessary evil just to keep society going. Whereas in this country, I mean, a good 26 million people get free money from the government every month, which I pay for with my taxes. But that is, again, that is group culture.That is the that is the group culture mindset where the leaders look after the people who voted for them, which is absolutely fair enough in a group culture mindset. However, it does not create jobs and it leads to a I think we have the most civil servants in the world and they're the most highly paid. So, yeah, in exchange for loyalty, you are rewarded.Whereas it's like a white people just want things to get to work.

Speaker 2

Yes. Crony socialism, communism type of thing. And I can see why this type of divide with belief in private property would result in productive farmers being murdered and their their land being confiscated for a type of leftist, communist type of redistribution.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly. That, yeah, the ANC are communists through and through and they're both socialists and communists. And, you know, they they they unfortunately, because they they cannot conceive of like work plus time equals wealth.They think wealth is just I mean, I just saw a statement from the ANC Youth League the other day that we must all work together to share this nation's wealth and create a society of equality. But yeah, sorry, the wealth isn't like a magic pool of stuff which just happened to be given to whites during apartheid and now needs to be given to blacks during post-apartheid. It is it is something that is created.Yeah, I mean, right. Right. You can mine it, you can make it or you can grow it.That's a good point.

Speaker 2

In Venezuela, they they're sitting on a huge reserve of oil, but it takes a lot of it takes a lot of skill, knowledge, work and investment to be able to turn it into usable, refinable oil to sell in the global market. And they've showed incapable of really being able to tap those resources. So I can imagine a leftist government in South Africa.The gold nuggets don't just appear on the surface where you collect them like Easter eggs and then sell them. You actually have to have systems, very complicated, advanced systems to be able to access those resources. So that all makes sense to me, Paul.But what do you think about moving forward with this type of identity politics that's been ingrained since apartheid? Do you see that changing at all with this exposure campaign from President Trump and the international community? Do you think it's possible that other political parties could take over from the ANC?

Speaker 1

President Trump has done a very good thing by, you know, exposing what's really going on in this country to the world. In fact, our president is right there now visiting him and talking. And I hope some good stuff comes out of it.What what he's done by highlighting this, and he actually started about four or five years ago during his first term, was. He's saying to the people, yeah, we have your back. So the US, you know, basically has the backs of white people in this country, which is a good thing.It's a good thing to be a friend of the US or to have the US looking after your interests. So I think he's letting the powers and the shadows know that, no, then I'm sorry, but you're not just going to roll over white people without us noticing. We are noticing and we're ready to do something should you try to do something stupid here, which is entirely possible.The second thing is, is. Yeah, sorry, that was two things. It was, yeah, he's saying to the white people, we have your back.And two, he's saying to the powers, you know, sort of behind the scenes who fund all the political parties. Yeah, we actually we're noticing what you're doing. And yeah, we're going to keep an eye on you.Those I think strategically, that is what he's up to. Of course, it's a bonus that America gets highly qualified, hard working farm people who are just going to add value to you. Like I said before, whether what happens is is what happens from now is it's very uncertain.I mean, our economy is tanking the rural areas. I mean, rural towns. So sort of provincial towns, things that aren't the megacities are in utter depression.I mean, all the infrastructure is broken. There's been no investment. There are no jobs.There's no there's no money there. And so, of course, people are being driven into the big towns like Johannesburg, Durban, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth. And the metro, the metro, the metropolitan authorities here are struggling.Johannesburg is battling because instead of coping with X million people, it's got X plus four million people. So, yeah, hey, the people who run the world want to transform society through chaos. So that's what they do is they stir it up as much as possible.As far as political changes, I'm not sure. I think our problem here is, as usual, the opposition are also funded by the same people who funded the ANC. So and then that's public record.So they they kind of pretended to be opposed to the ANC last year, but then they helped sign the expropriation without compensation act into law. So that wasn't very useful. And the law, the black letter law right now in this country is the ANC can come and take your stuff if it wants to.Yeah. And that's very similar to the United States.

Speaker 2

For it, where the Republican Party has basically been the controlled opposition party and the Democrats have been the main party for quite some time. And that's what President Trump, I think, is trying to to change that system. And I think it is working from our side.But I'm not hearing from you that there is any really viable opposition party in South Africa. So it could be quite a long time before things change for the better then. It could be.

Speaker 1

One possible option is for whites, either by force or peacefully, hopefully peacefully, because the civil wars are horrible. I've been involved in two and they are not fun. Is that white people are allowed to set up?Well, if allowed, but they just set up their own state somewhere here like the Western Cape. Yeah, we'll have the Western Cape. We'll repeal all the laws.We'll kick all people out who don't agree. And yeah, come and get, you know, come and fight us if you if you if you disagree. I saw I saw a prediction of this on 4chan years ago, like 10, 15 years ago.Some guy, some guy, obviously, I think a spook who's saying that, yeah, white people will move to the Western Cape, kick everyone out who doesn't agree with them, and then the rest of the country will devolve into a thousand little fiefdoms with armed gangs running them. And that's happening right now, I must say, except just without the, you know, the white separatists in the Western Cape. That would be cool.I would be there like a shot. The Western Cape is a lovely place.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people have made similar predictions in the US because we have certain geographic areas that are more likely to secede and be their own autonomous regions. Exactly.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2

So definitely California, Oregon, Washington and parts of Canada there on the West could be their own liberal states. And then you have other areas like Texas that have a strong secession movement and even Alberta, Canada possibly becoming part of the United States. So, yeah, that type of balkanization is definitely possible.Well, Paul, we're running out of time here. Where can people go to access your social media posts, your analysis? I've been following on Gab and X.Any other places you go?

Speaker 1

Yeah, sure. No, I think that's it for now. I am revamping my stuff on the back.I'm doing a lot of development and writing at the moment. But yeah, come and chat to me on Gab anytime. I answer all questions.It's gab.com forward slash Paul F. P-A-U-L-F. And then on X, I am Paul underscore Ferber, if you are B-E-R.Elon let me back on a couple of years ago. So I post the occasional comment there, too.

Speaker 2

I remember when I first discovered you, I don't know, for four years ago or so on X, you just said all the things you weren't allowed to say. And for a while you had a theory that's, hey, maybe the deep state just has someone on there's like some white hat on the inside that allows you to keep doing it without being censored. But then eventually you were banned.

Speaker 1

Yes, I figured it out, actually. As soon as you get over 30,000 followers, you get you got put on a list by the JJ or whatever her name was. You remember Chief of Censorship at Twitter, that horrendous creature who was working for Jack?She was holed up in front of Congress for, you know, basically stifling freedom of speech. Yeah, it was. If you got over 30,000 followers, then you immediately moved up into a category where you were watched.Whereas before I didn't. So nobody cared what I said. But also I used to have 20 to 30 million views a month, which was the same as someone like CNN in those days.I mean, I have the screenshots. I have the say, you know, I have the I have the proof because, yeah, it was riding on the back of all my commentary stuff on Q and other anons on the chance. So, yeah, I've got nothing like that now and I've no real need to get it up.It depends. I haven't thought about like how to maximize exposure at the moment. I'm a bit too busy for that.

Speaker 2

Right. Well, I appreciate citizen journalists like yourself who are willing to put their name and their face out there because it is a risk. You know, we both have experienced what it's like to have the mainstream media smear us and then be banned and censored and so forth.So I think it it means a lot. And we really appreciate having someone from South Africa being able to tell us what it's really like on the ground. So thank you for sharing your story.My pleasure. And thank you all of you for watching. You can go to JMCVoice.com, click on JMC Archives, see all of the programming there. God bless all you patriots. Good night and good luck.